Responding To The Beyonce ‘Single Ladies’ Drama
Dec 22nd, 2008 | Author: The Fly Guy | Category: Fly Letters
Comments (69)
Dear Fly Guy,
A friend recently told me about your comments on the “Single Ladies” Beyonce video. I read what you wrote and I felt like “Wow, so this is how a man thinks!” I in turn wanted some advice. I’ve been friends with a guy for a little over 3 yrs now. We talk, go out on dates, have had sexual encounters, and have both used the “L” word. We don’t see each other that often anymore because I moved to another state to go to law school. He and I have never put any other label on our relationship aside from “friend,” although I am 1 of 3 women that he says that he has ever loved; including his mother, and his ex-wife. Reading your article made me think that maybe he just loves me for who I am and is just “FAMILIAR” with me and isn’t actually IN love with me. I would love to be in a relationship with him OFFICIALLY, but that article shook me up and I would hate to think that I’m driving down a road that ultimately leads to nowhere. What do you think?
Searching For Answers
Dear Searching For Answers,
Before I address your particular concern, I think that you (and others) may have misinterpreted the main idea of my Beyonce ‘Single Ladies’ piece. Was I trying to bash what some would consider a “women’s empowerment” song? No. Was I looking to show that men have no desire to settle down? Absolutely not. What I was attempting to relay through the piece was a possible alternative to her side of the story. The reasons behind a breakup can never be completely summed up and dismissed by a simple “you should have put a ring on it” statement—there’s usually more to it. So what I wanted to offer in response was some of the possible reasons that this guy didn’t put a ring on it. But my example was just one of many possible scenarios, and can’t be applied to every relationship.
As far as your situation goes, I think the even bigger concern over him being “too familiar” is whether the two of you even want to be in a long distance relationship. All of the “I love you’s” are cool, but now that you are in a different state, there needs to be an honest discussion about what you expect from one another. Again, let me make this abundantly clear: saying I love you and having sex doesn’t officially make you a couple (although some people fool themselves into believing that.) Boundaries and expectations need to be set. And if you find that he isn’t interested in doing that, then you have a decision to make. But don’t continue down this road without first determining where you stand—especially since you know what you want. Without that information, you may one day find yourself in the same predicament that I was in after watching Beyonce’s performance in Cadillac Records—disappointed and disillusioned.
I hope this helps,
The Fly Guy
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Good morning all!
FG, I have had an issue with the scenario discussed above for quite some time and it’s nice to hear that someone mirrors my opinions on it. It amazes me how far we’ve come now a days in the dating/relationship realm. There are so many assumed relationships today that its utterly unsettling. I wish for the days of old fashioned courtship, the way it was done in the old days. Boy meets girl, boy likes girl, boy asks girl to be exclusive, girl accepts, later down the road the L word is exchanged, sometime passes and boy proposes, girl accepts and the two are married. I know it seems old fashioned but I wish for those days again. Now with the woman to man ratio and the value change in our society from family to wealth men and women seemed to care less about matters of the heart. Today things go something like this: Girl chases boy, boy is not really interested but goes along because its something to do, girl doesn’t get the hint, boy is seeing other women, girl is not seeing any other men…(she assumes since they are sleeping together, hanging out and she has met his parents) they are an item. Girl finds out about other woman/women and is devastated…on her own accord of course because they never had the talk about exclusivity which is what the guy will claim when she confronts him.
That’s just my take.
I would like to know something from everyone. How do you feel about having those you are dating meeting your parents? It used to be that if a guy took you home to meet his parents that meant he considered you to be a woman he could marry, in my experience that just doesn’t ring true anymore. Men now a days seem to bring home any random stray. I won’t allow men to meet my family until I know we’re planning a future together. I don’t want my family/friends getting attached to someone who may not even be in the picture a few months from now. In my dating experience my family has only met one beau of mine and we were together for 5 years with plans on getting married.
Devoted
I think the chase works both ways regardless of the ratio because women are being consistently approached daily and will always have options. Unfortunately with the shift in society and I dont agree with it, dating has become a game to be played with men and women jockeying for leverage and being too cautious at the same time.
In response to your question about men introducing any random lady to our family, IMO I think thats very untrue. If anything we hold off until we’re very sure the lady will be around awhile and that may take a good amount of time.
@ Blaze well it’s good to hear that you and your circle of friends don’t get down like that, but TRUST as a women in the dating scene…it happens all too often. Of all the men I’ve dated I’ve only not met one man’s family and he was Nigerian. The rest it happened before the first month was up. And I wished that I could ease you mind by stating that it was the same kind of guy that I was dating but they came from all different walks of life. I even had one guy trick me into it, lol. It’s a low down dirty game.
Blaze:
Being approached does not equal options. As any 10 women if they get approached on a daily basis, and their first answer will be no. As them if they get approached by men that they find unsuitable, then it will change. That ne’er do well at the gas station? Not an option. Granpa looking to recapture his youth with a pretty young thang? Not an option. I can count on one hand the number of times that I have been approached by a man who I would even consider an option. Being approached in and of itself means nothing.
And I dunno about meeting the parents. I think a lot of dudes today bring a wifey-type woman home to meet the folks, which does not indicate that she’ll be around for a while. A more mature (or relationship phobic) man will likely wait, but most dudes buy into the whole “wifey” phenomenon, where you get a girl that has a good “resume”, but that doesn’t mean she’ll ever be that man’s wife.
@JAT, lol
That ne’er do well at the gas station? Not an option. Granpa looking to recapture his youth with a pretty young thang?
@Devoted
Its all about due dillidgence before bringing a woman to meet moms. Some dudes are pressed to bring a decent woman to the crib but that should be a red flag from the jump. Im not trying to meet any parents or kids off the rip.
@J Thought
Good morning. Sorry to hear that the level of guys that apporoach YOU on the regular aren’t at the highest standard you look for. But please beleive all the XY here would agree that even when we are suited up, fresh cut and as polite as we can be have to fight to get some eye contact and a nice good morning when its only two you in the elevator or walking down the street. Some women straight front and miss many opportunities by trying to act unapproachable.
****believe
@ Blaze
I’m glad we agree that the meeting of the parents/children all “willy nilly” is a no no. But to comment on what you stated at JAT, I must admit that I am guilty of the very thing you speak of. It’s not that I’m trying to be unapproachable I am 9 times out of 10 in my own world. Thinking about what I have to do at work, picking up clothes from the cleaners, what I’m making for dinner, etc and I’m not making excuses I’m just saying that’s where MY head normally is. I have to do better with that because I’ve been out with coworkers male/female alike and they would say stuff like “that man was trying his best to get your attention and you were oblivious.” That’s a very bad habit of mine that I need to break if I expect to meet anyone.
@Devoted
Good to hear that you see where the fellas are coming from..For the most part, brothers on all levels acknowledge each other in passing even if its a head nod or quick “whats up”. We expect the same from black women. We’re not necessarily trying to holla at you..maybe a few times… but we’re just trying to make a nice gesture. Especially if you’re rocking a nice look and displaying a confidence in yourselves. There’s nothing more sexier than a lady that looks upbeat and seems approachable.
Devoted1, I completely agree on ur assesment of the dating/relationship world nowadays, and I too long for the golden days that my Grandparents talk about. I also wait until I am in a serious relationship before I let my SO meet my parents…So far my Dad has only met one(my daughters dad)…why put the other ones thru that and its not going to go anywhere? LOL…My Mom has met 2…on the other hand I know my ex even bought girls he was cheating on me with to meet his Mom…so I guess its different strokes for different folks.
@ Blaze
No doubt! You can always count on me to remain balanced in my views involving both sexes. I’m not going to side with the women (just because I’m one) if I don’t agree, and I pride myself on that.
@ What?
Now see you have just opened up a whole other passionate topic of mine with the “I know my ex even bought girls he was cheating on me with to meet his Mom” statement. That will get you CUT!!! I have a strict policy for everyone in my family when it comes to bringing around the others. If you introduce someone to me as your SO, don’t even fathom bringing around some other individual unless you want your stuff BUSTED ALL UP…because I’m snitching!! Now I won’t tell your SO but whoever the side person you are sporting will get chumped off so bad they’d wish they were dead. Not to mention that if you decide to drop your SO and get in a relationship with the jump off…they will NEVER be accepted by me….EVER!! And I will make it my job to make their life a living HELL. That is sum trifling behavior there and I hold those individuals who allow their homes to be the be the infidelity hut just as accountable. I figure, I can’t stop you from cheating but I can damn sho make it harder for you to do it by not allowing it to go down in my presence. Honey as you can see I really feel some kinda way about that mess…wiping the beads of sweat that have formed across my livid head. Lmao!
@ blaze:
I have been unapproachable, both intentionally and unintentionally. But, no of that has yielded what I’m looking for. So, I sit on the sidelines and let the rest of you play this game.
OMG, Devoted1, I think we might be related, LOL!!! I don’t go as far out of my way to make the jumpoff uncomfortable, but they will know whas up after they leave the family gathering never to be seen again…Loyalty is very huge with me! Lmao @ “wiping the beads of sweat that have formed across my livid head.”
^^ none. It’s freezing in my office, and my brain hasn’t thawed yet…
what????? are u saying the cadillac performance was horrid????
who were u disillusioned with?? explain
@ What?
Yes ma’am loyalty is very important to me, besides I wouldn’t want anyone to do me like that. Not to mention I am not a fake person, so the act of me smiling, offering you a beverage, telling you your outfit is cute when I know you are the jump off is not my cup of tea. Then I have to turn right around and pretend with the SO as though I don’t know you are being played is too much drama for me…that’s why I majored in accounting. Lol
1) I was actually pleasantly surprised with Beyonce’s performance in Caddy Recds, but then again, my expectations were low.
2) I agree with FG that a honest conversation needs to be had. You may or may not like the answer, but you deserve to know where the “relationship” is headed.
@ Devoted
It would be nice to go back to the ways of old, but it’s not easy as neither gender wants to put in work nowadays. Instant gratification is what most are after, and if you don’t give it to ‘em, someone else will. I’m not advocating doing such as I do believe in making him “work for it,” but when there are so many women confusing being empowered with being easy, it makes it a bit more difficult.
As for meeting the parents, only a couple of guys have met my parents. That’s a huge step for me and not everyone deserves it.
@ Reina
So if you had to address the issue of instant gratification, what would be your recommendation for rectifying the problem? I mean at some point all of us have to adopt the position that if “someone else” will…then let them. Because the alternative is giving in to some things we see as unsavory in the “hopes” we will get what we want and that’s a big gamble. Your thoughts?
Reina
Out of curiousity….How can you say it would be nice to back to the days of old but then say you believe in making him “work for it”?
Sorry, work pulled me away.
@ Devoted
I view instant gratification as fleeting and futile. Sex does not guarantee a commitment, and to use it in such a manner is only detrimental to oneself. If you can’t wait for me, then be on your way. The choices other women make will not influence mine.
@ Blaze
I don’t understand. Do you not believe men used to put forth more effort in yesteryears?
@JaT
“So, I sit on the sidelines and let the rest of you play this game.”
Thats pretty much where I live.
@ and1:
Oh really? Then pass the popcorn playa!
@Reina
I think back in the day there was more of a mutual effort when both parties showed interest and less games. Men definitely courted women back then but I think now men have to do more work….A lot more barriers to break down..i.e women puposely looking unapproachable and not welcoming a nice kind hello, good morning, you look nice today,etc from a man. Women back in the day appreciated those type of gestures. So many initial barriers that men have to break through.
@ Blaze
It’s not as if women have erected barriers just for their own amusement. Disappoint breeds cynicism, and it’s hard to remain optimistic when each man turns out to be lackluster. I would guess that women had less barriers years ago because men were more inspiring. Nowadays, some men believe romance is bringing over a DVD and Jiffy Pop. And for a first date, that gets a hell no from me.
@ blaze:
I think a lot of men read interested and available as needy or desperate. There definitely are women out there that are thsoe things. But every woman that smiles at you is not trying to “trick” you into marrying her. Nor is every woman that shows obvious interest easy and going to give up the goodies just because she commented that she likes your tie. It goes both ways. For every woman that plays games, there is a man who acts retarded whe a woman tries to initiate a conversation with him.
Reina
IMO First date or not..it shouldn’t be based on if the first date was a DVD and Jiffy Pop, it should be based on the quality of time spent together..even if it is a walk in the park or an early morning coffee.
I think some women nowadays forget that regardless of the activity he chooses, a man still has to invest the time he spends with you.. and thats just as important.
*Ahem* what’s a Jiffy Pop?
LOL…thats an old school way of cooking popcorn out of a tin can over a burner
@ Blaze
Ha!
@ Fab
LOL It’s popcorn.
@ fabie:
Jiffy Pop is old fashioned pop corn
@ blaze:
I think more women would appreciate a guy spending quality time that doesn’t necessarily cost a lot of money if dudes actually offered that. But, a movie is a lazy date. It’s what I want to do if I don’t really want to talk to you. And, if you don’t know me, and you want to come to MY house, be all up in my space, then obviously your interest is not about getting to know me. I would inwardly wonder if a guy was cheap if his first date was a walk in the park, but I would NOT express that to him. I would just keep my eyes open and look for additional information to support that conclusion. I would also judge our time at the park based on the level of conversation we had. If bruh-man didn’t have a game plan of what types of information he wanted to find out, if he couldn’t allow the conversation to have its own organic twists and turns, or if he was just BORING (after normalizing for first date nervousness and awkwardness), then he gets the deuces. Not for his frugality, but for our lack of compatibility.
Ohhhhhhhhhh! Now i know! No coming over and bringing Jiffy Pop…check ;)
Reina
And dont front, I pulled off a nice first date with a bootleg DVD copy of Sex and the City the weekend it came out…lol
J Thought
Some men may look at as needy and desperate but some men like myself will look at as the women knowing what she wants, confident enough to let it be know…and wise enough to keep it moving if he’s not the one.
@ Blaze
Well, kudos to you, but for me, first dates do & will not take place in my home or his.
I agree with Devoted1. I miss the old fashioned way of dating. I’ve come to realize that more and more men are growing accustomed to not “wanting” or “having” to commit to a relationship. The reason for this being is the infamous “friends with benefits”. After having 7-10 chicks that will give it up with no commitment involved and still play the GF role. Why commit? Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free?
Then after a whole bunch of wasted time goes by we wonder why “Prince Charming” won’t take the relationship to another level. THe whole situation really pisses me off.
J Thought
A movie date is not lazy at all…because by the time you’ve agreed to go out on a date with a man, there should’ve been numerous conversations by then. Also wondering if a man is cheap because he wanted to take you on a walk in the park is obsurd. I thought we were talking about bringing things back to the old days and being romantic? Younger women tend to measure the quality of a date or time spent with a man monetarily. Based on our conversations I know that you’re not that shallow…
Hey all! Long time.
@ reina:
I cosign. First date is never at my house. He won’t know where I live until well down the road.
@ Fed Up:
I agree. And, on the other hand, I wonder how many women are quick to throw in GF benefits before really finding out that Prince Charming is counterfeit?
@ blaze:
I am hardly shallow, but I also know that a man spends his money on what he values. Why do you think that when women are hurt, the first thing they do is attack a man’s possessions? Because he values those things. I’ve known dudes who couldn’t pay their rent but have scraped money together to take out their SO. Until a man is somewhat invested, he speaks with his wallet.
@
Just A Thought
Unfortunately tooooooooo many women will give guys the special treatment in an attempt to convince him that she’s “wifey” or “GF” material. This hardly ever works and thats when the bitterness and insecurity begin to set in.
@
REINA
I agree with you. Not first dates at his or my place. Had on too many stalkers. I need enough time to determine if you’re sane!! lol
@ #39:
To clarify, in the early stages, a man speaks mostly with his wallet. All that other stuff requires a lot of effort that he may not want to put forward if he doesn’t think that a deeper connection is giong to develop.
@Fed Up
Men are accustomed to it not wanting or having to committ to a rleationship because your own gender allowed it to happen. Not saying its right at all. But if a woman can’t figure out if she’s a jumpoff or the actual GF then she’s not asking the right questions or she really doesn’t want to know.
@J Thought
Men spend money on what he believes? Are you serious? Ok, in some situations I see what your saying but moving forward you need to change your rational. Isn’t there a new saying out now “It aint trickin if you got it”…? So men spend money on sex and strippers…does that mean we value those things? Now if your game is tight you can ge to his heart…everything else is superficial
@ blaze:
I’m not saying that you can go strictly by how much he spends on you. But yes, men value sex, and some of them (especially in ATL)value strippers. What I’m saying is that most men want to flaunt their girl. They want to take her out and show her a good time. And if they can only afford to do it once a month, then they will compensate and do other things that don’t hit his pockets, but best believe when he gets some change he is going to spend some on the woman he’s seeing, if he wants a relationship and not just sex. A man that doesn’t spend any money is just looking to cut.
And, blaze, clearly my game isn’t tight, else I wouldn’t be the resident manhater, now would I?
and men are some heartless bastards.
@ Blaze
I have an issue with this “if your game is tight.” A woman needs to have game to win a man’s heart? What the hell is game anyway? Game itself, as I define it, is superficial as it seems more voluntary than natural.
Hi Nisha! Where have you been?
@ Reina & Fedup
I am in total agreement with the no date at my house stuff.
@ Blaze
I side with you on the notion that a romantic walk in the park does not signal a frugal being…for me at least. Oftentimes on the 1st date if we are both trying to figure out what to do then I always suggest a walk in the park. This is the ideal first date (or one of them) because I can ask all those telling questions and look in your face (without distractions from the waiter/waitress or the curator) to read your body language as you answer.
@ JAT
Some men seek out those women who hold the belief you do ” Until a man is somewhat invested, he speaks with his wallet” and they shower them with all these gifts because they know some see it as a sign that they are truly interested. However, after having been showered with all those gifts and you are left played do the gifts make it hurt any less? I definitely won’t spit on a man who would forgo paying his rent to take me out…handle your finances first bruh and hold off on courting until you can afford it.
@blaze
I agree with you. The date is about spending the time with the other person to see how you vibe together. If you’re overly concerned with what it is exactly that we’re doing or especially how much money its gonna cost me, you’re not worth the time. I also agree about the movie date. I think people underestimate that it IMMEDIATELY gives you and your date a common experience and could be a way of gaining insight into how the other person thinks.
DL said it best “That side of the menu comes with steak, lobster and D***. I’m not saying you (expletive) me, but someone where you live (expletive) me tonight.” ROTFLMAO!!
Reina
Let’s be real..life is a game. Its about making moves, positioning yourself and taking risks. It also consists of dealing and handling possible consequences that may derive from actions we take
IMO regarding a woman having game, I already defined that by saying it’s a woman who knows what she wants, confident enough to let it be known and wise enough to keep it moving if he’s not the one.
@ devoted:
I see where you’re coming from. My opinion is formed from my experience of not insisting on material things, and finding out that those dudes I’ve dated never move beyond that. I figure if they know up front what I expect, then I won’t wind up pissed two months down the line when he failed to catch on that my hinting that I wanted to go to a specific restaurant actually meant that I wanted to go to said restaurant. But, as blaze has informed me, I’ve had the unfortunate habit of picking lames so I guess I brough such shabby treatment on myself.
@reina
I have been on a hiatus lmao. Nah how you been mamas? We have to catch up.
@JaT
“But, as blaze has informed me, I’ve had the unfortunate habit of picking lames so I guess I brough such shabby treatment on myself.”
I think you told on YOURSELF about that one. lol
@ JAT
Lmao @ ” then I won’t wind up pissed two months down the line when he failed to catch on that my hinting that I wanted to go to a specific restaurant actually meant that I wanted to go to said restaurant”. Isn’t it the truth, some of them are clueless…I must admit.
@
Blaze
I halfway agree with you. I agree that women really need to wising up and stop allowing themselves to be in these jumpoffs situations because very RARELY will the realtionship go anywhere.
On the other hand there are dudes out there that will automatically bounce when they come across a woman who will not allow herself to engage in sex before a commitment of exclusivity has been reached. They figure they have so many women giving it up w/o that requirement so why put up with the hassle.
@ and1:
if you say so.
@ nisha:
Hey!
@ devoted:
I think most are clueless, and those that aren’t use the stereotype to their advantage.
@Fed UP
In that case they did you a favor by bouncing
@
Blaze
Your right. It’s a great filtering and weeding out process.
@jat
hey mamas!
@ Nisha
Sorry. I had to go to my anger mgmnt class. LOL You’ve been missed around here! I’m good, just frigging cold.
@ Blaze
I recognize that, but I would say if a woman is pretending to be those things, then that’s game. Otherwise, it’s just her demeanor. I view game as a false pretense.
@Reina – anger management? really? lol!
Thats only if she’s faking but I know a good number of women who are confident and progressive and you never here them bitter or saying men are bastards.
Let me flip the script…when do you decide you sponsor a meal for a man or get him gifts?
@ blaze:
To answer the question you posed to Reina: I don’t mind paying for dinner after we’ve gone out for a while (variable amount of time, dependent upon the dude). And gifts, hmmm, a dude is more likely to get gifts if he’s gotten the golden compass. The price of the gift is extremely small if we haven’t been together that long. It definitely won’t be anything sentimental until I actually feel sentimental about the guy.
J Thought
“I don’t mind paying for dinner after we’ve gone out for a while (variable amount of time, dependent upon the dude”
What about dutch or every other time? There would be mutual interests right?
“And gifts, hmmm, a dude is more likely to get gifts if he’s gotten the golden compass”?
But I bet you would accept a gift well before he gets access to the golden non-flexible compass?…lol
@ blaze:
I like presents, especially for my b day, so I am very likely to accept presents then. THen I would feel guilty about should I get him a present, etc.
The first couple of times are dutch, then it can alternate, but not every other time exactly. Especially because if we’re at the point where I’m cooking for him, that counts towards my total, cost of food plus labor.
And I pity the fool who thinks a gift buys him access to the golden compass, flexible or not! LOL
@J Thought
LOL…you are a piece of work. I can’t wait to hear about the dude that will eventualy break you down.
@ Blaze
There is no certain time. If I ask him out, I’ll pay no matter where we are in the dating process. And I don’t do dutch. Either he pays or I do.
As for buying gifts, once again, it’s not scheduled. If I’m feeling him enough that I’m inspired to buy him something, it will just get done.
Reina
That sounds reasonable….I knew some of you EC members had some kind of sensitivity and fairness about yourselves.
@ blaze:
Why must it be that I have to be broken down? I am perfectly willing to give 100% to someone who believes in reciprocity. I have yet to find that. Even at half mast I’m outpacing these dudes out here, so I chill. I am not a piece of work, I am just a girl, looking for a boy, waiting for him to love me (yes, I watched Notting Hill for the first time last night, and that line is too corny not to repeat).
I can’t wait to hear about the girl that breaks you down and gets your nose wide open.
@J Thought
Im glad to hear you progress from saying men are bastards to showing a sign of hope of wanting to be loved…
“I can’t wait to hear about the girl that breaks you down and gets your nose wide open”
I welcome the opportunity….