Not dead, but dying.

I don’t think it’s the independence of females or the reactionary behavior of males…

I think it’s the result of father’s not being around to teach their sons.

@Kanisa
I dont think there’s a broad answer for that and I dont think we can completely use not having a father around as an excuse but it is a big part of the problem. I have a mother, a sister and two lil nieces and never had my pops around my entire life. But I do treat all women how I want men to treat the ladies in my immediate family. I think basic manners are missing period. I hold doors open and say good morning to strangers and rarely get a response….sisters included. So it works boths way…it comes down to mutual respect and treating people the way you want to be treated…bottom line.

Let me dig alll up in this piece FG. Dig this people,chivalry is not dead at all. Men would loooooovvvee to be chivalrous. However like the writer said some are discouraged by their peers and women. I mean ladies bust it baby? Ill be damned if some knucklehead calls my girls that. They say its the way the kids are raised. Speaking for the minority community WOMEN are supposedly the head of household correct? So who’s teaching these young men to respect women and these young women to act ladylike,bc according to society it aint the men. I was fortunate,chivalry WAS A CONSTANT IN MY HOUSEHOLD. My brother is the definition of thug,however removes his hat n the house and opens doors for ALL WOMEN. And I am the same way,saying goes in my family treat all women like u treat the women in your family. I’ve had my daughter n my arms groceries in the other hand,yet felt the need to hold the door for a woman. Bc its embedded in me to do so. Chivalry is apart of being manly yet women in some cases have shredded the male makeup to pieces and redefined it. And that type sucks. Here’s my last example that my chic loves. When we go out I never allow her to walk from the car or from the particular spot back to the car. She says it makes her feel extra girly in which all females dooo like to feel. However you get “independant women” who in some cases make u not want to do it in fear of offending them bc of their independance. Hell when I do that for my woman,everytime you can hear the sneers,and the anger from the women to their men like “she don’t gotta walk”

And my reply to that is “YOUR DEMANDS MUST BE MET AT EVERY TURN TO ALLOW PEOPLE IN YOUR SPACE”. PERIOD

@kanisa
That seems odd. Don’t u believe women “since folks say women can raise boys to be men” can teach their sons how to treat women?

@Black
Thats real talk and it goes back to what you were saying yesterday about these young cats. Maybe I;m getting older but these music videos have been a bad example for a long time now. You have babies raising babies now and no one is teaching these young guys respect and manners, the videos are displaying sisters as objects and props which isn’t cool. Its good to see you take responsibility as father. I have too many of my boys who wont step in that capacity at all.

@blaze
I’m with you on manners. I say “excuse me,pardon me,etc” till I’m blue n the face. Lol

And I know cats do get discouraged when women don’t acknowledge the gesture. I hung with a woman who I adored bc she looved my chivalry. And she appreciated it “in many of ways.lol” but its some who’ll walk thru that door like your a doorman or somethin

@ blaze

But are you the exception or the rule?

@ blackfujones

Women can yes, but I’m not sure the types of men that go around calling women bust it babies, b*itches, and h*es were raised by such women.

I don’t believe that chivalry is dead, but it is on life support. I think it stems from people, both men and women, not being taught that this is acceptable behavior. I have a young female relative who subscribes to the thug mentality, and labels any man that tries to treat her in a respectable manner a “square nigga”…and won’t give him the time of day. But let an unemployed part-time drug dealer smile at her, and she’s having his baby (4 babies, 4 baby daddies, 28 yrs. old). I’ve enstilled in my daughter not to accept anything less than the best. I taught her to look for a man who will treat her the way I treat her. And I taught her that there’s nothing wrong with dating an intelligent man with a good head on his shoulders, that treats her like a Queen. She knows she deserves to be treated that way. And based on conversations I’ve had with her, there are a lot of young men out there that practice chivalry, but more need to be taught it’s okay to act that way.

@kanisa
Nahhh thas another topic,women cannot raise a male to be a man. End of story

However those women allow themselves to be called hoes bust it babies bitches etc.

@blaze
I can’t see myself not caring for them. Like I said this convo is a whole other topic “men raising their kids

@ blackful

While that’s unfortunate, that’s neither here nor there that the women allow themselves to be called whatever…a gentleman wouldn’t even do that in the first place.

*sits around to see what the “males” who were raised without men have to say about your other statement…

This should get interesting…

@KanNisa
I’m probably the exception but I was fortunate to have a strong mother and she kept a positive household, thats whats missing in families today.

As for women raising men to be men…I’ve seen the good and the bad. It just depends on how strong the mother is.

I wouldn’t say dead but lacking within some men.I think it all boils down to how a woman carries herself and the attitude that she gives off.You respect yourself and act like a lady a REAL man will go that extra mile to show chivalry.Simple as opening doors for when women entering bulidings THATS A START, I think all men should practice that until it becomes apart of them, that also can be a another reason why it is dwindling down as well.

wow…you guys are seriously impressing me. I think when men (MEN) have daughters, they definitely try to compensate for some of their OWN wildness…hence you Black and you Moe treating your daughters and SO’s as the princesses/queens they are.

My mom was a single mom and she always used to treat me to dinner, flowers, jewelery and gifts on ‘love’ holidays (V-day, b-days, xmas etc) because she said that’s how her precious daughter SHOULD be treated. She also told me to never tolerate a man who didn’t treat me as well as my struggling mother with 3 kids managed to…but lo and behold I haven’t held up that standard to the men I’ve dated. I’ve gotten more flowers, open doors, rides to the curb and “Good Morning, MISS Chelsea” from random dudes throughout my day than I did from ANY guy I dated.

It’s sad because our parents try to teach us alot of things but we get so caught up in what media and peers have to say and how they dictate our lives, we don’t even enforce the little lessons we were taught. I sincerely hope your daughters heed these lessons and NEVER get tried for anything less than they are guys. I’m really proud that you guys are so instrumental in showing good examples for your daughters!! Kudos to you all!

I don’t think chivalry is completely dead. Whenever I’m in the elevator with a man I always wait to see if he’ll allow me to step out first or if he will just rush out as soon as the doors open (which I think is rude). In my observation, I’d say about 8 times out of 10, the guy will allow me to step out first. And I ALWAYS say “thank you”, it’s nice to be appreciated -whether you’re a man OR a woman. Most women, I’ve noticed, will just step out of the elevator w/o saying anything, like it’s their given right (which I also think is rude).
So, chivalry in my opinion hasn’t completely died and gone to glory… Yet.

And also chivalry always earned me “cool”points with women. I used to be shy so chivalry was my way into the door. Pulling chairs out,taking my hat off when I enter a room full of women. If you talk to young guys they don’t know what chivalry is. Hell they wouldn’t make it around my mom. Fools wit they hat on n the house get treated like crap point blank.
@kanisa
Its some strong women most def,however when it comes down to it you need that male in your life to make you a man. Thas just how I feel
@chelsea
My daughter walks around in furs and diamonds since she was 1. I don’t freakin play. Lol

“I wouldn’t say dead but lacking within some men.I think it all boils down to how a woman carries herself and the attitude that she gives off. You respect yourself and act like a lady a REAL man will go that extra mile to show chivalry.”

Agreed. I think if chivalry is dying, its b/c young people are killing it with a lack of respect for self and for others.

@Chelsea
Thank You

Every year I send my daughter and her sister (my unofficially adopted daughter) a V-Day box with candy, cards, and stuffed animals. I never wanted them to feel the unnecessary pressure of wondering whether or not they were going to get anything. It’s been about 8 yrs. since I started that, and they’re still pressed to get their box…and will clown me if I’m late!

@ Black & Moe

I applaud you both in how you’re raising your daughters. As a daughter whose father treated her in the same fashion, it definitely has influenced how I carry myself and what I expect from a man. I know what a man is capable of because I witnessed it, and I expect nothing less.

That being said, it’s been my experience that some men, not all, respond offensively to a woman of such caliber. I don’t believe chivalry is dead because I witness it daily. I also witness the opposite being told by men that “I’m feeling myself too much.” And I don’t like allowing others’ opinions to affect me, but at times, it can be discouraging. Make me feel as if I’m in a lose/lose situation. It makes me wonder is there a line I’m supposed to straddling that I’m unaware of?

@guys

I’m glad…we need that. As little girls, as women, we need that. I’m so afraid of having children because I want to have the kid that other parents scold THEIR kids for not being more like. Kind, courteous, mannerable, KNOWS their worth, acts accordingly and bestows those things onto others. Sounds like you guys are giving my kids a run for their money. Consider the challenge accepted…lmao!

I think there are a lot a ill effects for women who grow up without strong male influences..its not just young black males. We have to look at it from both sides

so chilvary isn’t dead…its just lying in some serious hibernation…I’ve started (lately) to purposely walk a little slower when a man and I are approaching the same door. Wait to see if he opens it. some guys RUN a lil when they see me coming to get to the door first. And at a conference meeting the other day at work, the guys STOOD when my co-worker (female, duh) and I entered the room. And I definitely addressed them in all occasions to let them know I noticed and appreciated it. I put my “Chelsea hates Men” mentality on the backburner for a short time…lol

I loved this post. I’m so glad that I was able to attract a man that is fully capable and is proud of being a chivalrous MAN!!! I don’t always like to toot my own horn but toot toot, lol!!! The crazy thing is that the man that I expected all of this from but was completely incapable of any of this is the father of my child…and I agree with KaNisa there are single mothers out there that DO NOT do a good job of teaching this to their sons, either they allow their sons to see men treat them badly or they blatantly teach their sons to treat their women the same as they would treat anyone else…its messed up but true, and NO this does not apply to ALL single mother’s raising sons!

**affects

@blaze
“Strong” female influence as well.

@Reina
“That being said, it’s been my experience that some men, not all, respond offensively to a woman of such caliber.”

If my daughter made this statement to me, I would tell her the man in question isn’t strong enough to give her what she needs, and to keep it moving.

“It makes me wonder is there a line I’m supposed to straddling that I’m unaware of?”

You know what you’re willing to accept. You know what it’s going to make you happy. So all you can do is be you. Don’t worry about straddling a line. If a man is unable or unwilling to give you what you need, then he need not cross the line.

@ladies
But at times its hard to be chivalrous to an extra feminist woman. Bc men will believe they’ll get barked at bc sometimes women try to exert their independance so much that it makes men second guess themselves. And really young males don’t realize eyes are watching them at all times. Your gentleman like behavior may not b noticed by that particular woman but trust someone is watching

Finally we all can agree on something,lol.
***SHOUT OUT TO ALL YOU GUYS ON HERE, KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND RAISE YOUR DAUGHTERS RIGHT SO THAT MAYBE SELF RESPECT LITTLE LADIES AND RESPECTFUL LITTLE MEN***. My aunt is raising a little 5 year old man now, its cute how he make sure he opens doors for her and his sisters and women in the family. I commend people raising kids the right way in this day in time

@black

understandable…but if you were raised and had it instilled to you that, as a male, you’re supposed to treat all ladies you encounter with the utmost dignity and respect, it shouldn’t matter. You aren’t being courteous to women and opening doors bcause you want them to smile at you…you’re doing it because you’re parents taught you to and because it’s something you grew up doing.

your parents** been messing that up a lot lately….

@ Chelsea

I do that think with the door sometimes too! :) Happily, dude’s pass the test 99% of the time…but that could just be my environment.

It’s great to encounter some of the lesser known rules to…like the dude insisting on walking on the street side of the sidewalk, or when going out to eat, the dude might take a position at the table where he can see the whole restaurant in case something happens…

What’s crazy is younger women believe too much chivalry is annoying

@Black
That is crazy. “Square Nigga” is one of the terms used to describe them.

I’m impressed by the sentiments of the men here. I have to say, though, I’ve come across more un-chivalrous men than those with manners in my day. I’m so used to having to get my own door, carry my own bags, fight with a man to go get the car (it’s freakin raining and I’m in a silk dress, you jerk!) etc etc (not to mention as an event planner I’m always catering to my clients and holding doors for them, waiting for them to sit before I’m seated, etc). So much so that actually, I get flustered and don’t always know how to react to chivalry when directed at me. I;m usually just going about business as usual, not expecting/waiting for that door to be held, chair to be pulled or whatever. But don’t get me wrong - when it’s shown to me, I’m in love. Makes me feel appreciated… and drives me to show just how much I appreciate it. So its a win/win, really.

@What
I agree with you. My single mother rarely let us meet any of the guys she was dating. If they never became significant enough it was no reason for us to meet them. But today, as I meet and date a few with kids, they’re quick to try to introduce their kids to me and I have to decline. Last time I dated a woman with a kid and when it was time to break up, It wasn’t with the just the lady but also her kid and that was hard enough because we connected. Never again…

I’ve never been in a relationship with a guy that wasn’t a complete gentlemen though I’ve encountered many. So, T-Moe, no, I will not, shall not, ever change the way I carry myself to catch a man.

And Black, I do agree with you. There are some scary women who out there who take being independent and a feminist too far, and I can see how a man would be hesitant.

I’m of the mind that I’m going to be me regardless, and that includes respecting and appreciating a man. All I ask for is the same.

@chelsea,yes it is instilled in the men,however you can agree its all a part of “courting” a woman to a degree. If you can show her without words that you respect her enough to put her first with a little gesture as opening doors, helping with large bags when she’s swamped,asking how her day was etc when u don’t even know her. Shows you resepct her as a woman and want to keep her feminity as tight as possible.

@Black
I agree with you sometimes I’m at fault for just dismissing guys when they want to help bring groceries up to my doorstep,I automatically say I got it but thank you for asking. Some things women just are accustomed to doing for themselves because we had to for so long,some women are programmed to be strong and independent and that can be our downfall at times,but most of us come from broken homes or single parent homes and never seen how it is to be cared for in a sense.

@kanisa
Lol
I do that alllllll the time. And really women don’t pick up on it at all. I put myself where the car may be,and ill mess around and icegrill an oncoming car if they get to close.lol

-thas when its ok to have a lil thug in you

@Chelsea
Do you think not having a father growing up has impacted the way you feel about men?

I saw first hand how it impacted my sister. By not having a male influence in her life she looked a dudes that showed a lack of responsibility and never had the guidance from a father to demand certain standards.

@songbird
To me it seems so valiant to pull up in your car and let everyone see YOUR WOMAN STROLLING to the car. And Ill purposely open the door and have love music on just to let her stunt a little bit in front of other women. Just so they can taste how they should b treated.

Gawwwwddd my woman eats that ish up.lol

@blaze

that’s hard to say. My biological father was in and out, depending on the year and how much money he had. (And I want to note that my mom NEVER bad-mouthed my dad, allowed me not to see him, or demanded money/child-support from him. Nothing)..but my mom dated quite a few men while I was growing up. Only one acted like a dad (complained about my clothes, didn’t want me going out late at night, insisted on checking out my car when I went on road trips, called every 10 minutes when I was away from extended periods, etc). But I was very open to dating etc up until this whole marriage fiasco. It’s all gone downhill from there. But yes, a stronger male influence would have helped me out a lot, IMO.

and I will say this…just because you may grow up in a loving, two-parent, stable household…doesn’t guarantee that you wont make love/life mistakes that your parents never demonstrated to you. It’s all about what you RETAIN from the lessons our parents and elders teach us. And growing up in a single parent household doesn’t guarantee failure.

@blaze,
Mann I hated when women allowed me to meet their kids,instant turn off

@t-moe
I’m telling you these young ladies are content with these watered down young men. Hell they’d rather just screw n have kids @16

@ reina
Luv I can’t stand an over independant feminist woman. Just chill and let your feminity show a little. Its ok to step back sometimes ladies

@lyricall
Most definately. To me you can’t say you want someone to be chivalrous if you won’t let that wall down. I talked to a woman who got pissed at me for opening the door and “putting my hand on the small of her back to usher her in”. She said I was rushing her. Right then and there I knew she wasn’t accustomed to being “led”. And its nothing wrong with women allowing men to lead.

Uh oh I think I got a question yall. Why are women so reluctant to letting a male take the reins and lead them?

@Black

that’s a new one…hand on small of back to usher in? Mentally noted. Will test for that one. lmao @ rushing her! Women like to SAUNTER! lol…you aint know?

@Chelsea
I totally agree about the two parent household…even though there;s a mother and father there doesn’t mean its healthy. My ex had both parents growing up but her father never gave a damn and she was always emotionally about the role he played it his life.

I also hate when women ask me, “do you think you can be a good father since you never had one present in your life?” I think I will be even more effective because I know excatly what a kid needs since I never had it.

Agreed chelsea
So agreed

U sweet sexxhay thannng you.lol

@Black I guess it goes back to learning when and when not to be submissive

@ Blaze, to this day my BD’s mother is quick to introduce her new “boyfriend” to her sons…and this is the kicker she’s married. Some women just have no business having kids, I thank God she had him cause he is the one that gave me the love of my life. I can’t blame her completely for how he turned out though, there comes a time in everyone’s life when we all know right from wrong. he would always use the excuse well i never saw a man treat my momma right, and i men just came and went…i just couldn’t handle it anymore

Lol@chelsea
I hold my arm out so my mom/wife/daughter/grandmother can saunter up the steps n their heels

But the hand in the small of their back tells folks three things. She’s protected,she’s cared for,and she’s fierce bc you gotta touch her. Lol”thas jus what I think” but really its to make sure a womans garments don’t get caught n the door or stepped on by you. My gram was big on etiquette

@Black

to answer your question, I wish more women would admit that we LIKE to be told what to do. Eff what they say out their mouth. In my relationships, I let the man drive when we go out, I let him order food to the waitress, I let him pay (yes, LET). I am ultimately feminine when I have a man. He walks a step ahead, he demands to see the manager when ish aint right, he picks where we go unless he asks my opinion or I have a definite location in mind. I let MEN be MEN! It’s not about being submissive, which I think women are terrified of being deemed as.

@ Black

I’m not reluctant for a man to lead me as long as the man is capable of doing it. I WANT a man to do it. I want you to lead me, want you to open my door, want you to defend/protect me, etc. I hate holding hands, but put your arm around my shoulders, hand on the small of my back and guide me. It makes me safe and loved. I’ll accept all that and more. I want all that. I also want you to realize that I CAN do things for myself, but I want you to do it.

@lyrical
Don’t u start an argument up n here woman. I can talk for days about both men and women submitting to their mates. I think both don’t do it enough. Women seem to hate being submissive these days why is that?

@What
Both my mother and my sister each had/are rasing 3 kids from mulitple fathers on their own without receiving one dime of child support. Its only right for me and my brother to show the ladies in our own immediate families that we can treat the women in our lives with proper respect.

I also think we need to hold other men, our boys, accountable for taking care of their kids. Let them know their kids dont deserve to be raised the way I did.

@chelsea
I yell at my woman when she doesn’t pick the spot,yet she laughed bc everytime she does I say I don’t wanna go there. Lol
She knows allowing me to pick makes me feel good.lol.like I’m the man

@Chelsea I agree with ya !!! shows he can take intiative, that is HELLA SEXY TO ME for a man to do that. I guess we are ultra girlie girls, lmao

@reina
Makes you feel more accepted and feminine when a man does those things u mention

Man do any of us work anymore? My feet have been propped up for an hour.lol

@Black
They cancelled our afternoon staff meeting…so I’m chillin! lol

@blaze. Hence y I only have three male friends
My best friend and I”who are 25 days apart at birth” he has four girls and a boy”all by the same woman” and he takes care of them all. My other friend has two kids and does the same. I will not and cannot befriend a man who doesn’t want to b a father to his children. That’s unacceptable

@black lmao No arguments here I’m a gemini and I tend to see both sides of situations, lol.
I guess it comes off as being told or being guided like you are a child for some people, some people are just extremely dominate to the point they have a problem with it.

@Blaze, that is great that you see it like that! I have to give my BD credit though, because although he was not a godd mate, he is an excellent father to my daughter! Ok, I’m going to stop before the tears start up.

i know…men like to feel like men. And women like to feel like women. So I say you open my door, carry my bags, ‘usher’ me in on the small of my back (why does it feel so good when someone touches you there anyway? Random…), drive, protect me from wayward cars, give me your jacket cuz I was too vain to bring my own cuz I didn’t wanna cover this AMAZING outfit, order for me, protect me, help me down on the stairs and lead me…but do it because you WANT to even tho I’m a big girl capable of doing it myself.

I just wish that he didn’t have to see the things that he saw while growing up, and i can’t help but to hold a lil resentment towards his mom. but that is my issue

@ Black

I’m flawed. I don’t have it all figured out, and I could understand if my independence is a turn-off. I have worn it like armor occasionally. However, being in corporate America, to succeed, a woman has to lose a bit of her feminity. In some places, it’s hard to be pretty and taken seriously. Men are more apt to listen to Janet Reno than Angelina Jolie. So, in the beginning, I’d wore slacks, never skirts, high neck blouses. My hair was always pulled back. I have to fight, to struggle to just be heard because I have breasts. “Don’t worry your pretty little head.” I’ve heard that and similar things so often in my tenure in the business world, and it has affected my personality away from the office. I have to be this strong, dominant presence each day, but at the same time, for my own sanity, I have to find ways to maintain my feminity.

When I get home, I want a man to take the reins, just take it all my burdens away. Let me feel like a woman, but at the same time, recognize that we’re equal. No, I can’t move the couch alone, but you can’t give birth to your children. I’ve been dismissed so much just because of my gender that I do wear my strength on my sleeve. I’m a work in progress and I’m learning to balance it.

Lyrical
I only see this amongst females my age and younger.
Like they want to wear both the pants and the skirt of the relationship. Every one needs a role to play. Period
But back to chivalry I once had a young guy n another forum that said he would never remove his hat while in a house. I remember going into a female friends home and removing my hat and her mom till this day tries to hook me up with her

But her daughter has mental issues

But lets be real, they’re a lot of women who are out here still saying they don’t deal with particualar cats because they’re too soft, too nice, he’s a push over, etc….

@reina
Your not alone I’ve met so many women who’ve said that very same thing. You all have to act accordingly at work but have to switch it off when your around men and sometimes some women aren’t able to that
@chelsea
Lol@amazing outfit

And yes I know u ladies love my semi-soft/semi working man hands on ya lower back and sometimes ya torso. Makes ya eyes swirl we know it

Those women have self esteem issues…and thats just my opinion…and no i’m not talking women who reject men the men that are sensitive to the point of being feminine men. I mean the men that try to be understanding…those women that claim that they only like thugs and rough dudes…there’s something wrong there.

@blaze

those ‘girls’ don’t know chivalry. They think a man shoots and kills people and wears his pants hanging off his a** and THAT means he’s a man.

A friend told me this once ‘If he loves you he wants you to be happy and not stressin about money problems. He wants you to smile everyday and be happy that you are with him.’ (yes i had to find that and copy/paste it!)Basically means chivalrous men do what they do so you don’t have to worry bout anything but being beautiful, successful and a loving partner to them. Call him soft, whipped, whatever…that’s his love showing. You’d rather he beat you, impregnate you, leave you or denounce you? Girl, bye!

@black glad you dodged that bullet, lol. What I mentioned before it does apply to women.I believe and let a man be a man,My mom is like that a take charge all the time woman because she dated men who were PUNKS yes I said it. I tell her all the time that she should just sit back sometimes, but you don’t find many men such as yourself that has that “GENTLEMAN MENTALITY” so I guess it just became easy for a lot of women to feel that they shouldn’t be submissive because the type of men that they date.

I think I have a feeling who wrote this and I think it is fantastic so kudos to you lady.
Like T-Moe said it is definitely on Life Support. I agree with Black as well. Women are raising boys into what they think men are supposed to be and you have so many abused women raising children alone the building blocks on how you are supposed to treat men and women are either swept under the rug or never even addressed. That whole ‘you need to earn my respect’ rule that so many have is ridiculous. I have had plenty of men pull out chairs, open doors, and walk me to my door. When I do start dating again chivalry is a pre-requisite. Period. If you intend to treat me like a Bust I Baby rather than a Shining Star I’ll pass.

@Black

a man with big, strong hands holding me anywhere between my bustline and my waistline is grounds for love…period!

well…it used to be(sighs)…what were we talkin about again?

Hell yea@blaze

They wanna be bossed around not led

They want a nigga not a man”I hate to be called someones nigga. I can be ya guy,dude,pookie,boo boo,but not ya nigga”
Some ladies just don’t know what they’re missing out on.
I notice when I’m out I get watched by women who are with they’re mates. And my demeanor is different than those guys. I dress differently and act differently towards my woman. As if I have etiquette and manners. Imo women are very observant of other “good” couples and will scold their man if he isn’t up to par

@Reina
I understand what you’e going through. My aunt/mom #2 dealt with the same problems while she was in the Marine Corps. She was one of the few Black female Sergeant Majors/E-9s in the Marine Corps. Because there were so few, she was pushed into forefront, and had to deal with a lot of high ranking male officials. She’s an attractive woman, and she had to deal with the same problems. The accusations about her getting to where she is because of her looks. It forced her to be hard and cold at times. And she used to bring that attitude home everyday. She didn’t know how to turn it off. And men who were attracted to her..were intimidated as well..even if they were the same rank.

Chelsea

U have no damn sense. I’m a bookworm who likes to work with my hands so I’m the best of both worlds. @lyrical
Yeah I know some punks,but then I know some guys who women know they are the leader of their family period. And its sad that some women haven’t xperienced chivalry before

@Reina - feel you on the corporate world forcing you to lose some of your femininity. that’s where I was going with my statement before. I’ve even traveled on business with a company president who would watch me struggle with a suitcase, laptop bag, LCD projector bag, & box of materials through the airport while he sprints with his one carryon and says, “they’re boarding! hurry up!” (yes I screamed at him!)

@ chelsea - I agree wholeheartedly. I LOOOOOOVEEEEEE when my man takes the reins like that. Unfortunately I can count on my hand the number of times I’ve gotten that completely :(. Maybe that’s my mistake for dealing with some sub-par punks… live and learn. And yes, the small of the back is such a great place to be touched :)

@ blaze - there is such a thing as being too soft (that’s another topic altogether)… but chivalry is not it. And if a chick sees it that way, she’s not a woman. I think chivalry makes you more manly, not softer. Chivalry and etiquette is not just about having manners, it’s about showing respect for those with whom you’re in their presence. And if you see that as soft, you’re a misguided girl.

Black I think that the mindset of so many black women is governed by BET and this ‘hood’ mentality. I had a friend that would want a thug dude that didn’t do anything for her. She in fact wanted a ‘nigga’ and not a black man. I for one not being brought up on BET and not in the hood I have never thought highly of any of that coonery. I want and demand a respectful, clean cut, Jesus loving, respect all ladies black man. Period. I will not accept anything less than that (well I may be flexible on race).

@miss

Agreed,only thing is I looove a woman of color. No flexing on that one

@Songbird
I def agree with you. I tihnk thats why there’s such a misconnection right now between sisters and brothers…the expectations are clearly not defined and there’s not any mutual respect.

@ Ms.

Shh!;)

@ Songbird:

Where have you been all week?

@ Moe and Songbird

It’s hard and it’s frustrating. I eventually stopped trying to hide my looks and put on my skirts and 4 inch heels. Each day is a battle, and I have to prepare myself for it. Songbird, I definitely know the type. You have to be assertive, and then I’m told that I emasculate men although I’m doing the same things they’re praising my male colleagues for.

@Black It is sad, I can’t even pin point who is to really blame for this men or women ? Men for not being men and stepping up and bringing the A-game,women for not teaching their sons how to treat women and allowing them to grow to be sorry men,fathers for not leading by example or women for not respecting themselves enough nor demanding to be treated a certain,and not allowing the guys who do have these qualities to just do what they are suppose to do. HARD TO SAY…. I think the roles have been reversed as well.

@Ms Miss
You’re not contemplating about jumpoing ship on the brothers are you?

Lol@blaze
@lyrical
Its disheartening,as a community families have to become stronger. And honestlt these kids need to stop havin kids

Black, and I know this will probably start another debate, but if I wait around for a black man that isn’t a thug in Seattle I will more than likely die single. They call this the interracial dating/marriage capital of the USA. So I’m open to the idea of love with any man willing to treat me right as a woman regardless of my race.

@Black
The perception of black men is starting to get so bad that some sisters are starting to feel that would be treating better by men from other races. Is that true ladies? Does that movie “Something New” have any relevance?

@ Ms.

As a product of miscegenation, I say do it! And no, that’s not saying don’t date brothers but definitely be open to other options.

Blaze I have been told by black men in seattle (and honestly I think it is the area I live, I never had these issues in Cali or Oklahoma) that:
I act like a white girl and I should take that as a compliment.
I have it together for a single mother, especially a black one.
That they can’t believe I only have one child.
I have such a pretty texture of hair, I must be mixed.

The list goes on. So many black men here openly dog out black women. So while I’m not actively seeking out other races if the opportunity presented itself and it was a good one, I wouldn’t pass up on it. No one makes a huge fuss when black men date interracially.

Blaze I have been dogged out by every type of black man you could imagine. Do I think that it happened because they are black? Absolutely not. It happened because they are losers. Do I think a man with less melanin than me would treat me better? Absolutely not. Not based on race. My cousin is married to a white man that beats her ass, doesn’t work, and disrespects her on a daily. That right there is proof that men of all races can be jackasses.

@ Reina - I’ve been working HARD! I’m about ready to shrivel up and die! Another few weeks, then I’ll be able to breathe… Hear you though on the assertiveness. It’s evident how much sexism there still is these days - take a look at how Palin is being reduced to a sex object by everyone (granted that’s all she got since I don’t think she’s a good representation of American women by a long shot… but I digress). It’s sad, actually. But it is what is.

@lyricalluv - i think it’s a little bit of it all.

Say what you want, but a part of me does think life would be so much easier, and I’d be so much happier playing in the traditional role and just taking care of house and home while my man provided. However, I also don’t feel like its realistic for me, for I haven’t met a man who could even by a stretch be able to play that role and respect me for mine (and not look down on me because I’m not working, and think of me as a possession and not a partner).

@Blaze I admit I have began to think I should explore more options with different races because we limit ourselves to just one set of race to look for a mate times has changed, it is any different than black men wanting to be with women of different races because of various reason that they have. But you guys have a problem when you see black women dating outside the race.Why should we put a limit on who we date when you guys do not?

@Ms Miss
I just see a lot of sisters beginning to cross over for various reasons…As far as
the black men in Seattle, they must not have been exposed to the right kind of sisters. In my area sisters are very progressive, highly educated and expect a lot from the men they deal with. And I respect…we have no choice to come correct where I’m at.

@miss

I’m not faulting you,I just love how women of color look. Always have been that way,and I coulda smacked yung berg bc those dark butts he talked about make my knees weak. Mmmm mmmmm

@lyrical
I’ve never dated/kissed/lusted/nor ever wanted to date a caucasion woman. Never have never will. Bc to me,its way to much beauty n a latina,african american,african etc etc. My gawd I’m drooling lol

Blaze black folks from Seattle are just in a different category themselves. The term ‘self hatred’ comes to mind often when I am around many of them.
My first prime choice of course is black men because I find black men more attractive than other races 9 times out of 10. But if I have two doors and door one is a black man that acts like he doesn’t have the common sense that God gave him and door two is a man of another race ready to treat me like a queen I’m going to have to take my crown and sashay my butt into door number two.

@songbird
I agree with you it would be easier and everything would fall into place.But I would have to work and make my own money though. I have to support my shopping habit, lol.

@Lyricaluv
I used to get disturbed about seeing sisters with other races but over time I realized that life is too short to be limited to certain races. I just think a lot of black women expect the worse first when they deal with black men now. The preception is too bad to overcome at first….we’re players, we dont take care of our kids, we’re afraid of committment, etc. Its too much of a broad perception from black woman….and that not including your past hang ups.

@ songbird & lyrical

I agree. I’ve had days where I’ve felt so discouraged that about to just being that housewife and play that role. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, it just wouldn’t sit well with me.

@blaze

I stay on the southside of chicago where its black women galore.lol
I never saw the need bc these gorgeous women were so damn accessible

Sorry to hear that miss. I guess places like ny,atl,chicago,LA are spoiled to a degree

@Black
U from Chi?…My people live on 63rd and Woodlawn. Too many choices in the Chi, too many.

dang…went to get lunch and missed a lot!

the only issue I have with people dating different races are people dating the other race just for other reasons besides they met a white man/latina woman they liked and decided to pursue it.

I find that a lot of my black male friends that date outside our racd, date those women because “she’ll give me pretty lightskinned babies” or “spanish women are just sexier than black chicks” or “i love me a snowbunny”…and women are like “oh ni**as aint sh** so i date white dudes”…”oh Spanish dudes eat it better”…”white/asian guys always have legal money”

Really? Ok..if u say so

@Chelsea
U never crossed over out of curiousity?

Chelsea I have absolutely no tolerance for people that date outside their race for those reasons. If it’s attraction than fine. Personality by golly go for it. But if you are dating me because you think I’m exotic or get off on thinking I’m forbidden fruit you better get out of my face before I get Kimbo Slice on your ass.

@blaze. I’ve lived in the chi,work n the chi play n the chi. 63rd aye I used to say on 49th n king drive and the wild 100s. I bought my house n the south burbs and its still beacoup black people lol
And I agree some black women believe blk men aren’t shit. @chelsea

I messed with a woman who dated white men bc she said they were docile

I date sexy women period. And I’ve gotten cussed out by women bc I find caucasions unattractive. We can b friends but I just can’t “get up” for em

Sorry

And another thing. I am so tired of white women telling me they are color blind so that is why they ONLY date black men.

@blaze

Nope…it’s Black men all the way for me. There’s just something about them. No spanish, no white, not even mixed. At the risk of sounding counter-Yung Berg-ish…I LOVE AN Idris Elba/Morris Chestnut/Derek Luke looking dude, tall, chocolate and handsome…others need not apply (j/k…lighter dudes are fine, but dark are my preference…unless his name is Ludacris or Nelly, then it’s a done deal)

@Miss

you’re exactly right. If you like her/him because they have all the qualities you desire, but a diff. skin tone, I’m ALL for it cuz love is blind…but just cuz you think shortie is ‘exotic’ looking…boy bye! LMAO at ‘Kimbo Slice’…dont hurt em like that!! LOL…

@Black your just one man of many, I appreciate you wanting to stay on board.But you have to see it from a black womans point of view, black women outnumber black men (ITS TRUE) we have to start thinking outside the box now and not cheat ourselves out on being happy and treated right. I would prefer a black man but if a caucasian man comes along and treats me right and he is my match then I’m not going to turn him away. I come from a multiracial family that consist of African american,caucasian,italian, and latin.I simply can not be a hypocrite and say I would never date outside my race

@Chelsea
The ratio here is 10 sisters to 1 man. But why are women so catty towards each other?

blaze, competitive instinct.

@Blaze I’m glad you realize that and openly admit that some black men can put a damper on our perception of them.I love my chocolate brothers but something has to give.

@Chelsea
What about a butter pecan brother, can we get some play? Are you being superficial again today….lol?

I feel bad. For the longest especially in high school I would absolutely not date a light skinned boy. Just wouldn’t do it. I remember one dude practically begging for my number trying to sway me and my friends were like ‘girl look at how fine he is you better give him your number’ and I would not budge.

@BLAZE

boo…the ratio around the WORLD is 10:1…in the black community its even worse. Women out number men ON EARTH and its even more true in the black community. Imma take what LL said even further…not only are Black women probably going to have to start looking at other races eventually for love, but some of us women are going to be forced to be single for life becuz there just aren’t enough men, let alone GOOD men, to go around.

And I told you yesterday…women HATE each other. There’s so much unstated competition in looks, money, body shape/size/type, career, etc that we just hate and hate on every female we encounter in some way. Every woman is guilty of it in some way. Some hoes are just more extreme than others

Kimbo Slice? LMAO!

@Chelsea
I hear you about the ratio…but not saying you have to lower your standards or preferences and I wont start the superficial. Even with the huge ratio sisters still discriminate against men without degrees, light versus dark, tall versus short, white collar versus blue collar. I’m just sayin. Not saying you should settle but as blacks we;re a little critical of each other…men included. I’m just as guilty

@blaze

lighter skinned guys are cool, I don’t avoid them completely. I have seriously dated a few light skinned dudes. My preference is dark. I guess its my way of righting the world since we have ppl that say we dark-skinned ladies are the LEAST attractive of all women of any race or creed.

Blaze I wouldn’t say it’s discrimination. When white women do it, it’s being selective and have standards. When black women do it we are superficial and discriminating against black men. I’m sorry but I worked hard in college to get were I am and want someone of a similar background. That shows that he has goals and wants the same things out of life as I do and understands the importance of education. I am 5’4 I do not want to see eye to eye or look down on you. I don’t care the hue of your skin but I do prefer a dark sexy chocolatey man that is attractive to me. And I have enough hair for the both of us, no damn braids!

and you and I both know, sisters will take a brother with nothing and stick with him.

some of us discriminate but a LOT of us don’t! you said yourself how some women in your fam have babies by no good men they loved and stuck with at one point in time.

I find that odd chelsead.Is it true that darkskinned people prefer someone light skinned prefer dark skinned? Light skinned guys give me no play, lol