wow…ok, this was a lot to process, and I’m going to respond in a minute. I just wanted to leave a message to say that I enjoyed reading this, and I love you too FG! Your friend is really lucky to have you, and I wish I had someone that I can talk to like that. That was really sweet of you!

Don’t get me started on independent women. Where I’m from, all you hear is women talking about how they don’t need a man. And then they wonder why they are alone.

WOW, heavy reading in the morning time, like Mz. Chief needed some time to process.

I’m not as career driven yet, even though I have a pretty decent career (it’s prolly cuz i don’t like my job all that much,lmao) and also i’m young, my independence is just really starting so I really can’t answer the question fully. But I do know this if I want something badly enough I will get it for myself and won’t look to anyone for help.And darnit FG you being the nice, concerning, helpful friend is making me miss my bestis male friends..i think every female should have at least one, they are the best kind of friends to have.

B.C, LMAO…women might not need men for everything anymore but we still want the companionship and the love.

Oh, B.C., tell us how you really feel. Now, what’s your take on dependent women? I don’t know many men who want that, either.

We’re in a time where unlike our parents & grandparents, we women aren’t raised to be a subservient wife - waiting at our parents’ house for a gentleman to come take us out to the bunny-hop and buy us a fountain soda, in hopes he’ll give us a house with a picket fence that we can take care of and cater to his and our family’s every whim.

Us women can go after those same successes of our male counterparts, and do a damn good job of it. There’s a fine line here, because as I see it, no - women don’t NEED man anymore to provide for them. We can buy our own cars, our own homes, pay for our own clothes and vacations, create our own savings nest eggs. HOWEVER - the emotional and physical needs can never be met on their own, and we do still need companionship with a man. Women still crave a connection with a man, only now it’s out of a PURE desire, instead of being shadowed by a real need to survive.

I feel your friend; I’ve experienced that myself on occasion, where a man at first seemed interested in my success, but as time went on, was unhappy that I wasn’t chasing behind him with my hand out depending on him to take care of me. (Why is it that it sometimes seems the golddiggers, although talked down about a lot, still get the gold?) I try not to make it like a competition, because it’s not. I’m never competing with my man; I’m just trying to be the best I can be. I still have my vulnerabilities, and although financially I may not need him, I need him in oh so many other ways. And why isn’t that enough?

I’m reminded of Jill Scott’s song, The Fact Is (I Need You)…

Wow. Been waitin to have a discussion about this. I despise the term independant woman bc in the end male/females need to b “dependant” on one another. I had a choice yrs back to choose between two women I was dating. Both suceessful n driven women,both spiritual,sexxy,fashionistas,with enough sass to put me n my place yet enough care to soothe me at times when needed. Only thing was one had this god awful way of interpreting her dependence. She would tell me how she came up at her job and I’d say I was proud,she’d tell me about her blowing money n vegas and atlantic city,the numerous restaurants etc she was privy to and it literally turned me off. Not that she made more than me,but the fact that she was out to prove her independance. So I stopped calling and married the other woman two yrs later

I’m wondering whether women have this motive to try to compete instead of just being comfortable in their own shell. To me success is defined by the person and not by society. So that makes me wonder y women love to say their independant bc most independant women depend on themselves bc they’re buTts are single.

This has really touched my soul and I couldn’t have read this in a better time.I’am going through the same exact thing and couldn’t understand why,this just gave me that inspiration to keep doing me and be proud of what I accomplished regardless of my relationship status is currently.THANKS FLY GUY

This was just what the doctor ordered.Thanks Fly Guy! I’m a officially a loyal fan now :)

As a self-proclaimed independent woman, I definitely can commiserate with your friend. It’s a situation I find myself in many, many times. Bragging about my non-need isn’t a characteristic of mine. It’s more of a reaction. Men attempt to impress me with what they can do for me finacially, what they have materially so I do wear my independence as armor. That I will admit. It takes more than such inconsequential things because I have and can obtain on my own. I’m good without a man, but one is required for sex, love, companionship as someone has stated. And the man I fall for, I will need. All others are secondary.

Ok. I thought I was finished, but I’m not. I’d like to know why are some men intimidated? You guys state that you don’t want a woman who depends on you, wants you to pay her mortgage and so forth, but you grow resentful of us who do not. It seems to me that I’m in a lose/lose situation. Either I pretend I need you and lose my dignity in the process or declare my self-worth and and continue being single. I need advice, insight, something.

Wow that was deep and it is also hit home with me. I feel like my independence had been a problem for men with me in my past becuase I think it hurts a mans ego that they cant provide anything extra to a woman. Everything I have done, and have are things that I have struggled for and for its not wrong to be proud of what u have worked hard for. I think men want to feel like they can provide you with something “extra” if you allow them into your life and when they meet the woman who has it all and can do it all for herself they feel like they arent relevant or cant be her savior, so they tend to look for someone who needs them.

“Independent” is a code word for stubborn, hard-headed, and/or unyielding. I think when a woman says she’s independent it simply means, “if you don’t do what I say, when I say it, and how I say it, you won’t have me around.” It’s because you won’t jump to her every whim she feels the need to inform you that she can do it by herself. Just pay attention to WHEN a woman uses that word - paying for dinner, opening the door, etc etc etc. I know plenty of women who are independent and they aren’t hard-headed, arrogant jackasses about it either. The minute a woman screeches about her independence, especially with the accompanying attitude, RUN BROTHA RUN! She needs a punk or an assistant with a dick, not a real man!

I’ve had men ask me if I am independent like it’s a trick question or something. Then if there is an issue they will throw it in my face. I’m sorry but i’m a big girl and as far as a roof over my head, food in my daughter’s mouth, and clothes on our back goes; we have more than enough and I work hard to make sure that we do. But that has nothing to do with me wanting the companionship of a man. So I dont need to flaunt my independence to anyone, no one likes a bragger. If you are independent it shows you don’t have to tell about it.

I’m not trying to come across like I’m hating on independent women, but it gets kind of old when certain women play that role over and over again.Just like you don’t want a boastful man, we feel the same way. That mess is for the birds. I love my women, but you don’t have to try so hard to impress me. You don’t have to keep telling me that you’re successful. I can see it, and you throwing it in my face just turns me off.

I don’t think independence is a bad thing, but I think it is bad when we don’t think we need a man. We can do a lot of things on our own, but that doesn’t discount a man’s place in our lives. I also think we don’t have to talk about our independence, it shines through on its own.

At the same time, I think men should do their part to make women feel good about their success and independence, so it doesn’t feel so much like something that need be defended…

Fly Guy, this was an excellent piece.

Great article. I think that what we women fail to remember is that men want to be providers. They have an inate desire to be needed. I believe this is why successful women can be a turnoff. Perhaps they wonder what we need them for if we already have it all…

Well, newsflash: We don’t have it all. I am rather sucessful in my career and have my own home… however, what men don’t see upfront is my desire to be the wife and soccermom I’ve always dreamed of. Just because I’m a few steps ahead doesn’t mean that I’m not in need of a fulfilling relationship. My belief is that a strong man can lead a household and a strong woman supports her husband and family. It doesn’t mean barefoot and pregnant, but letting a man lead his family. There is a balance there that I believe our generation has forgotten.

I’m not going to turn into something I’m not just to snag a man who will not step up to the plate; but I’m also not going to forget that a man just wants to be a man in a relationship.

B.C me and you are on the same accord here. It seems like women feel the need to wear their accomplishments on their sleeves,theyre doing the same thing that they complained that men did too much and that is brag about their accomplishments. I for one could care less about how you perceive your success to be, bc to me some peoples successes are failures. Not everyone will view your cars/homes/vacations etc. as “coming up”. Hell most will view it as another damn bill u have to pay. But to each its own

@ reina, you would be surprised how many men care more about you than your successes. When i was dating to hear a woman try to match u tit for tat in who has achieved more drove me mad. Its one thing to talk about your achievements and another thing to try to outdo your mate and boast about your success.
Women have to realize that men dont care about things like that.

Did I imply that I compete with men I date? I do not because I do not allow my career or possessions to own me. My statements are always ‘”I work as…” rather than “I am…” Being independent and successful is something I’m proud of, but they do not define me. I have no need to boast of my accomplishments, but I shall not disregard them or allow anyone else to do so.

I don’t brag about my accomplishments but I never hide how proud I am of the things I’ve achieved. In the past my success has been a huge problem with this guy I dated for a couple of years. I guess he felt my drive overshadowed his own (lack) of accomplishments. It got to the point where he actually made me feel guilty for being so focused on my studies and not spending enough time with him. Everytime he would mention that I would retort: “would you rather date a dumb-ass hoodrat or an accomplished woman who’s career-oriented?” It would shut him up for a while, but deep down inside I know that he was only projecting his own insecurities. I don’t go out of my way to belittle men with my success, however I’m still learning how to demonstrate my independence to men without appearing like “I don’t need a man in my life”. It’s ok for women to depend on men in relationships: it’s ok for a woman to be taken care of by her man and not feel like she has failed her role as a modern woman.

I find it interesting how every rebuttal is “he was insecure with my drive”. IMO I find it hard to believe that the majority of men are scared off by a successful woman. The hell are we scared of? Do u believe that we see women who’ve achieved a great deal and shy away from them? I thibk not for the most part its women trying to compete when its not even necessary to do so. Insecure u say? Seems like in “some” cases thas the problem with the women.

@blackfujones: The men who are most likely to feel threatened by their woman’s drive are men who are insecure, period. That’s a known fact. Not all women are trying to compete with men to see who’s most successful, but let’s face the facts: there are SOME men out there who misconstrue a woman’s success as a means to emasculate men. These men need to ask themselves why they’re feeling insecure in the first place. It’s not about being scared of a successful woman, because there are plenty of men who are confident enough to not feel threatened. Don’t you think it’s unreasonable to solely put the blame on successful women? Certain women may brag excessively about their accomplishments, but there are guys out there with petty remarks as well feeling attacked whenever a successful woman discusses the fact that SOME men do feel emasculated by their woman’s ambition.

@ tauruslady. I do recognize that some males do devalue womens accomplishments to make the women feel inferior to them. I do recognize that, yet when will women rid themselves of the term “independant” when both males and females depend on one another. I know for one it was a time where my wife made more than me however our roles as mates never changed. It just seems both sides are in constant competition with one another. And now that women have made strides in excellence it seems that the majority of you want to boast about it instead of allowing others to rejoice n the fact that you’ve made something of yourself you wanna stick your nose up n boast about it. I’m just saying in my past I left a woman “who btw is still single n doing the same thing” who always was tellin me how independant etc she was. The crap was annoying. Its one thing to be proud and another thing to brag. Just like women hate a man who continues to try impress you with their accomplishments we men don’t dig it either

I’m glad that you said that to her because it put it in perspective for me. Your career/success is the cherry on top. I personally haven’t boosted about being independent. Others around me have and I a very modest and humble person it is hard for me to seriously make a big deal about it. I know some women like that and that is how they define themselves through their accomplishments and that is not what matters. What is in your heart and how you treat people is way more important. You are a good friend Mr. FG.

Hmmm… this article made me think. I once dated a guy that seemed to be put off by my success. And, I admit that I did brag about it (I was in school, and a nerd, and basically thought that was all I really had going for me…long story). Anyway, our insecurities and constant one-upmanship ruined the relationship. I have definitely toned it down, but in spite of my being more tactful, I’ve still had my share of encounters with men where they either try to trivialize your accomplishments with their words, or they run for the hills if they perceive that you make more or have more than they do.

You’re a great and I’m glad you didn’t blow her out of the water. She needed to hear the truth and I think you put everything into perspective quite tactfully and eloquently.

I understand where she is coming from…but on an honest perspective, I have nothing in my life that I am more proud of than my daughter, hell-bent, spoiledness and all. SHE is my biggest accomplishment. Just the fact that she is a good girl is a testament that God looks after fools and babies AND fools WITH babies. However, I don’t think I have ever “expressed my independence.” I will tell ANYbody, “I need a man!” If saying you don’t need one is supposedly how you do it, then I don’t do it very well. tee-hee I mean I know my worth, but I don’t yell it to nobody. That is kind of just between me and I….I continuously work on my dimensions and my priorities, because they change every day as I get older. I also only compete with myself, so that keeps a lot of the braggadocio to a minimum. I never have to tell anyone “I am better than you” because no one is ever an opposing factor in MY “race.”

I am sorry, it just eludes me to how you, yourself can “express your independence” without bragging or surreptitiously mentioning all of your accomplishments. Now THAT may not prevent you from getting a man, but it will definitely prevent you from KEEPING one. On the contrary, perception can be a motha. Men will say it “looks” like I don’t need a man, when that is really not true. Accomplishing tasks on my own or attempting to do things on my own oftentimes is supposedly an “expression of my independence.” I admit I am very headstrong and I do have a tendency to not ask a man, or anyone else for that matter, for assistance. Not saying it is wrong or right, but is that actually “expressing your independence?” For me, no. It is simply nature of the beast and plain old habit. I just figure I want it done, so I will do it and if I don’t know how to do it, then I have learned something that I never knew how to do before. You feeL me? No biggie. But, I will admit it definitely has hurt me because SOMEONE ELSE’s definition of MY independence is the furthest from the truth. Does being physically (and financially) independent equate to emotional independence? I don’t think so. As a matter of fact, I KNOW so.

Mind you, I don’t physically need a man to take out the trash or wash the car, though I would like him too. And, on the same token, a man doesn’t need me to cook and clean for him, though he might like me too. As each generation comes of age, the grooming of our men and women has become more ambiguous. Men are being taught to cook and women are being taught how to change a tire, in addition to the normal gender associative tasks. On top of all that, both genders are being taught how to successfully run a household independently of the other. NOTE: My opinionated verdict is still out on whether any of these teachings have played a factor in our mating possibilities as a whole. However, I do believe this is a very good example of the prices we pay for progression. I also think the availability of options which society has provided us plays a role in the unfortunate expendability of a mate too. To draw on my previous example, how many soul food restaurants were open back in the day of our parents? And, how many $10 car washes do you see on the corner? They are almost like liquor stores here in Chicago. In the end, to sum it all up, it is nothing wrong with having goals, accomplishments and being self-sufficient. However, I genuinely believe we all must realize it is just a whole lot nicer when you have two “beings” progressing together no matter how independent we THINK we are. We must never be too self-sufficient for love.

And, that is MY TWO CENTS. :-)

Ok this has been a definite issue with me, not because I brag about independence - it just shows! When someone is getting to know you they will learn where you work, where you live, and will no when you on vacation and maybe even call when you at the mall. I am not about to act like I can’t take care of myself to help a man with his ego. I am personally sick of men claiming they want a independent woman when they cant handle one if they have more than them. Its funny how my salary is always an issue but I have yet to tell someone how much I make, like I said it just shows. As a independent woman I will say we want a man who can be on our level that we can achieve greater things with. We should not be looked at different because we made choices to put ourselves in a position to take care of ourselves! If we were always asking for men to take care of us that would be a problem too!

I feel your friend FG! I was married to a man that admired my strength in the beginning, depended on it to pick up the slack when he failed to provide for our family, then came to resent it in the end.

Now divorced for 4 years I have not been on ONE date !!!!! The men that have asked are actually unavailable (2 are married and the other is engaged to someone that I know well).

I don’t shout my independence. As a matter of fact once you get to know me, you’ll find that I am a loving mother and very submissive mate. The problem is nooone seems to want to get to know the real me.

Like Bee said, they form an opinion of me from what they “think” they see/know and run the other way.

Dressing professionally, speaking articulatly, driving a dependable vehicle, living in a nice home and taking care of business should not lead to loneliness!!

For: My Turn…you hit it DEAD on! While I rumbled rambled, you cut it straight to the chase by saying, “When in halibut, did not dressing like a Hoochie Mama, not talking like Pookie and nem, not driving a 1972 Radillac, not living on Third and Destitute, and not being afraid of creditors lead to us singing “All By Myself?” Kudos to you, suga!! Still, like my Papi said, “You can’t hide elegance or ignorance. It is gonna show for sure.”

WOW I so Love this POST!!!!
I dont believe there is a such thing as “BEING TO INDEPENDENT” There is a Such thing is “ALWAYS TALKING BOUT WHAT YOU GOT AND WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR SOMEBDOY”

Mr.FG I have this friend who believes no matter how time flies and what change may bring in the future HE BELIEVES THAT WOMEN WILL NEVER AMOUNT TO MEN!!!! what type of s^%t is thats??? HUH???

I dont feel as though “US” women who are Independent to brag and bost about what we have or what we can do and etc. Especially to belittle men or to make them feel like they and be the Man that we need them to be.

I cant speak for everybody else But what I will say is this (and take it how you want to)

Im 21 Years old. I have my own Place in a very Nice area. I have my own car and I make bread for a senior in college who hasnt got her degree yet. It Amazes me to see alot of young females my age in the DMV area (D.C M.C V.A) who all they want is a Man to take care of them, buy them things, Spoil them, pay their bills, Move in with him and etc. But they are missing the whole principle. It’s ok to have your man do all those things but nobody knows te future and you have to do things forself as a woman incase of a rainy day.

My parents taught me my indepence since I was a little girl and I believe that helped me become the wonderful young lady that I am.

Mr.FG I agree with your lady friend.. sometimes I felt just like she did until I came across this man. I knew he liked me and vice versa and we were in the dating process. But it felt like we were in that stage forever. So me being a Blunt person i just got right to the point.

this is what I said. WHat am I not pretty enough for you am I not thivk enough for you???? Why cant we be together and this is what his stupid response was.

him: “Im used to a certain type of women”

Me: Ok and what is that?

him: Im used to Hood Girls!!!

Me: Silent ( I had no words)

him: Im used to girls that are dependent on me… will put up with the things that I do.

Me:[I cut him off] “So your saying becasue I feel i dserve to be treated a certain way and I have made a establiment on my own Im too Much for you to handle? (then I just Hung up)

Pretty Much I feel Some Men not all Just feel that they cant be the man they want to be because Some Women provide for themselves.
I dont understand why A man would feel like that. A Man does not have to Pay my bills, Cater to me or etc just to make me fee like the Doing his Job as a Man. A Man his suspposed to Respesct me, Love me Comfort me and help make decison to Better “OUR LIVES” He does not Have to be the Soul provider!!!